Renew the blog :-)
I think in order to do that we need to use the blog as a step-by-step study together. It just doesn't work when we're all in different places. I think it will be the most productive/effective if we pick something none of us have read before. So, first order of business: what are we going to start the year off with?
I liked Sara's idea of using the children's bible to do a bible study with.
Captivating could be a really good one for us to work on together.
I did a little poking around with books suggested if you liked The Shack and So You Don't Want to Go to Church Anymore came up
Other ideas? Or does one of those stand out to you?
I'm excited that Toni is joining in this time around - I think it will be great to get more thoughts/opinions/discussion :-) Sara - in your experience, is it "the more the merrier"? Should we consider inviting other friends (Tab/Shana?) also, or do you think it will be more authentic if we keep it to the three of us for now?
Thursday, December 29, 2011
Tuesday, December 6, 2011
The Shack
I, too, didn't like the writing or the ending. Although, I did have a different take on the ending regarding time, having read "Heaven is For Real" first - where time is not the same in Heaven as it is on Earth. In that sense it would be possible that it was not a dream and that all the events did, in fact, occur.
I did like the way the Trinity was used and their perfect relationship throughout the book. I also like Sara's play on it! The genders did keep throwing me off, but I think it got rid of the idea of God being viewed as a male or one human figure.
One idea I have been thinking about a lot is how Mack wanted to know how God could let terrible things happen and how he could still love those awful people. I like how it was explained that God had no control over people rebelling against him, but they were still his creation and he loved them.
I also liked the part when Mack went with Jesus to cross the lake. When he didn't believe he could walk on water and didn't put faith in Jesus his foot broke the surface, but when he put down his guard and trusted in him he was able to stand.
An interesting part that was at the beginning, middle and end was the fact that Mack went alone. He didn't want his wife to go originally to "protect" her. But, when Mack was starting to understand things between his relationship with God he wished Nan had been there to share it with him. I don't recall the specifics of their conversation, but God said that he wanted her to come and Mack realized that he hadn't been protecting her by keeping God from her. It made me think about all the things that we may keep to ourselves to "protect" others, when in fact we are possibly doing quite the opposite.
Sorry for many quick comments! Maybe we can use all ours to start a better conversation... maybe via Skype for a book talk of sorts?!
I did like the way the Trinity was used and their perfect relationship throughout the book. I also like Sara's play on it! The genders did keep throwing me off, but I think it got rid of the idea of God being viewed as a male or one human figure.
One idea I have been thinking about a lot is how Mack wanted to know how God could let terrible things happen and how he could still love those awful people. I like how it was explained that God had no control over people rebelling against him, but they were still his creation and he loved them.
I also liked the part when Mack went with Jesus to cross the lake. When he didn't believe he could walk on water and didn't put faith in Jesus his foot broke the surface, but when he put down his guard and trusted in him he was able to stand.
An interesting part that was at the beginning, middle and end was the fact that Mack went alone. He didn't want his wife to go originally to "protect" her. But, when Mack was starting to understand things between his relationship with God he wished Nan had been there to share it with him. I don't recall the specifics of their conversation, but God said that he wanted her to come and Mack realized that he hadn't been protecting her by keeping God from her. It made me think about all the things that we may keep to ourselves to "protect" others, when in fact we are possibly doing quite the opposite.
Sorry for many quick comments! Maybe we can use all ours to start a better conversation... maybe via Skype for a book talk of sorts?!
Monday, November 21, 2011
The Shack - the Likes and the Dislikes
In retrospect I feel like I definitely should've treated The Shack like Case for Faith and done more or less a chapter by chapter response. Could, woulda, shoulda... :-/ But now we're at a point that all three of us have read it so hopefully one of the topic I remember to touch on will spark some good conversation and it will all just snowball from there...
I guess I'll start with the bad...
We'll leave it there for now - jump in :-)
I guess I'll start with the bad...
- pretty poor writing- to the point that it made it difficult to read at times
- wish there would've been more follow-through on how his life was transformed afterwards
- Liked that it tackles the difference between forgiveness and forgetting. Even though I got the message, I'm still struggling with it - I know that there's forgiving I need to do, but it's hard to let go. I think I'll do a lot of re-reading of the message that forgiving does not condone or forget what was done, but releases you from the power the hurt holds over you.
- LOVED the play on gender of God - calling him Papa while being portrayed in a very feminine way :-) This was definitely an issue I've struggled with, for a lot of the same reasons that the book discussed - it's hard to understand/interpret God as a father figure (as is the "norm") when you didn't grow up with the best of father figures...
- I liked that there were some "jabs" at overly ritualized religion/spirituality - that has been such a huge hurdle for me personally. The message that God can be interpreted uniquely jives with me a lot more than the idea that God is a concrete idea that can be experienced in only structured/uniformed ways
- I liked that it addresses the issue of why such horrible things can happen despite the existence of a loving God
We'll leave it there for now - jump in :-)
Sunday, October 30, 2011
My faith walk - part 2 - wrestling with God
My work in Haiti, led me to graduate school. I attended the University of Michigan's School of Information and studied how the internet and technology were impacting poverty. My goal was to figure out how to use technology to really make a difference in Haiti.
More doors opened for me. Michigan granted me money and helped me take a team of graduate students to Haiti to research this question.
I was able to take the money they granted me and raise an additional 50K more. I organized a big bus full of goods to go to Haiti. I recruited students to go and trained them on my work there.
Part of the training was to explain my relationship with the church and the role of the church in Haitian society. Students also came to a commissioning at St. Lukes who provided at least 5K in additional funding.
We arrived in Haiti. We moved into the church dorms. DISASTER. Students on the team were atheist and were angry that we were staying at the church. They insulted the church and got us kicked out. We moved into an expensive hotel for which I didn't have enough money to afford for the whole length of the trip. They accused me of taking public money for religious purposes and said that the church community was too closed minded. They didn't understand Haiti. They didn't understand me. They left and told everyone at the University that I was generally a bad person.
Alone in Haiti, cleaning up their mess. The church wouldn't speak to me. I felt abandoned by God. Why would he bring me this far to leave me? I screamed out loud. I was angry. With all that I had entrusted him. I had no back up plan.
I returned to Michigan to finish my degree. The year was quiet. I stayed to myself. I studied hard. I rarely spoke of Haiti. I had no idea what was next for me. My future, my career, my understanding of the world was shattered.
The more educated I became, the more I also began to doubt God. Creation didn't make sense. Faith became perhaps a psychological construct. I had questions. Church gave me nothing. Have faith.... But I knew all the "right" answers for church. But no one there wanted to think critically. My intellect was required to check out and somehow I was supposed to believe in the magic of it.
I was conflicted. On one hand. I had seen the supernatural. I had seen miracles that can't be explained. I had spoken in tongues. Seen visions. Had a call from God. On the other hand, my logical brain couldn't be honest with myself. I had seen the dark sides of the church and been the brunt end of religions criticisms. I had deep anxiety. I felt an unpenetrable seperation from God. I had never in my life felt absence of God's presence and hoped that he was just teaching me how athiests felt. I deeply hoped that.
I went on to move to Africa not knowing what else to do. I spent a miserable year there. More darkness. The mofia, child slaves, the machinery of development, the abuse and racism of our global society. I was sick, disgusted and tired. Where were you, God? Still, no sign of the light that had guided my childhood.
One morning, in Africa, I was invited to lead a theatre workshop in a private school. I played games with the kids. We used the theater games to open a discussion on race and class differences. I found one small sliver of light. I remembered my brothers in the Fools for Christ. I wanted church. I wanted a community. I needed to go home.
I prayed that God would lead me somewhere where I could heal. Somewhere where I could connect with a church and maybe lead youth ministry. I prayed that I could find a way out of this deep depression in my faith to a place of renewal and a sense of closeness with God.
God led me to Davis, California. It was not what I was expecting, but exactly what I needed. The first weekend in town, I walked over to the closest church to my house. It was a lutheran church. I had seen in the phone book that they had a joint youth program. Maybe something I could get involved with.
That first service I came to people were out on the lawn sitting in beautiful weather. There was a band playing the coolest music and ...It was a healing service. People were praying for healing. I got right up and prayed too. Within weeks I had joined the choir, helped lead confirmation, and joined the evening service band. I found myself intrigued. Most of the people that attended this church had PhDs. Most were scientists. Many evolutionary biologists.
How could people reconcile logical, scientific brains and still have a deep and active faith? I yearned for the answer to this question. Over time I became deeper and deeper engaged with the ministries of the church. I became the interim pastor for the college ministry and eventually the lay pastor for the evening service. I was in charge of giving sermons, picking music, prayers. I helped with baptisms, weddings and a funeral. I felt God again. Not only did I feel God again, but I felt called by God again.
My understanding of God deeper, richer, more vibrant. My faith stronger, though now, less innocent, more complex. I have more answers and fewer answers than I did before.
But at this point, I am certain that God is true to his promise to be close to us when we seek him. God reveals himself to us in the ways that we need. And there are so many expressions of the church -- Catholic, Baptist, Non-Denominational, Pentecostal, Quaker. All as different interpretations of that same story. As a means to draw us in and connect us to himself in a way that is deeply meaningful for each of us, exactly where we are in our walk.
More doors opened for me. Michigan granted me money and helped me take a team of graduate students to Haiti to research this question.
I was able to take the money they granted me and raise an additional 50K more. I organized a big bus full of goods to go to Haiti. I recruited students to go and trained them on my work there.
Part of the training was to explain my relationship with the church and the role of the church in Haitian society. Students also came to a commissioning at St. Lukes who provided at least 5K in additional funding.
We arrived in Haiti. We moved into the church dorms. DISASTER. Students on the team were atheist and were angry that we were staying at the church. They insulted the church and got us kicked out. We moved into an expensive hotel for which I didn't have enough money to afford for the whole length of the trip. They accused me of taking public money for religious purposes and said that the church community was too closed minded. They didn't understand Haiti. They didn't understand me. They left and told everyone at the University that I was generally a bad person.
Alone in Haiti, cleaning up their mess. The church wouldn't speak to me. I felt abandoned by God. Why would he bring me this far to leave me? I screamed out loud. I was angry. With all that I had entrusted him. I had no back up plan.
I returned to Michigan to finish my degree. The year was quiet. I stayed to myself. I studied hard. I rarely spoke of Haiti. I had no idea what was next for me. My future, my career, my understanding of the world was shattered.
The more educated I became, the more I also began to doubt God. Creation didn't make sense. Faith became perhaps a psychological construct. I had questions. Church gave me nothing. Have faith.... But I knew all the "right" answers for church. But no one there wanted to think critically. My intellect was required to check out and somehow I was supposed to believe in the magic of it.
I was conflicted. On one hand. I had seen the supernatural. I had seen miracles that can't be explained. I had spoken in tongues. Seen visions. Had a call from God. On the other hand, my logical brain couldn't be honest with myself. I had seen the dark sides of the church and been the brunt end of religions criticisms. I had deep anxiety. I felt an unpenetrable seperation from God. I had never in my life felt absence of God's presence and hoped that he was just teaching me how athiests felt. I deeply hoped that.
I went on to move to Africa not knowing what else to do. I spent a miserable year there. More darkness. The mofia, child slaves, the machinery of development, the abuse and racism of our global society. I was sick, disgusted and tired. Where were you, God? Still, no sign of the light that had guided my childhood.
One morning, in Africa, I was invited to lead a theatre workshop in a private school. I played games with the kids. We used the theater games to open a discussion on race and class differences. I found one small sliver of light. I remembered my brothers in the Fools for Christ. I wanted church. I wanted a community. I needed to go home.
I prayed that God would lead me somewhere where I could heal. Somewhere where I could connect with a church and maybe lead youth ministry. I prayed that I could find a way out of this deep depression in my faith to a place of renewal and a sense of closeness with God.
God led me to Davis, California. It was not what I was expecting, but exactly what I needed. The first weekend in town, I walked over to the closest church to my house. It was a lutheran church. I had seen in the phone book that they had a joint youth program. Maybe something I could get involved with.
That first service I came to people were out on the lawn sitting in beautiful weather. There was a band playing the coolest music and ...It was a healing service. People were praying for healing. I got right up and prayed too. Within weeks I had joined the choir, helped lead confirmation, and joined the evening service band. I found myself intrigued. Most of the people that attended this church had PhDs. Most were scientists. Many evolutionary biologists.
How could people reconcile logical, scientific brains and still have a deep and active faith? I yearned for the answer to this question. Over time I became deeper and deeper engaged with the ministries of the church. I became the interim pastor for the college ministry and eventually the lay pastor for the evening service. I was in charge of giving sermons, picking music, prayers. I helped with baptisms, weddings and a funeral. I felt God again. Not only did I feel God again, but I felt called by God again.
My understanding of God deeper, richer, more vibrant. My faith stronger, though now, less innocent, more complex. I have more answers and fewer answers than I did before.
But at this point, I am certain that God is true to his promise to be close to us when we seek him. God reveals himself to us in the ways that we need. And there are so many expressions of the church -- Catholic, Baptist, Non-Denominational, Pentecostal, Quaker. All as different interpretations of that same story. As a means to draw us in and connect us to himself in a way that is deeply meaningful for each of us, exactly where we are in our walk.
Thursday, October 27, 2011
My faith walk - part 1 Childhood
Since both of you have shared your journeys to this point, maybe it would bring a little light to the conversation if you knew my faith story as well.
I have always been in love with God. I don't know if you know this, but my mom's pregnancy with me was an accident and her and my dad both prayed that God would claim me as his own. I think their prayer was more than listened to.
One of my very first memories in life was not being able to take communion. I was 3. I really wanted to. Really badly and couldn't understand why kids weren't allowed to have God too.
I was also raised Catholic for the fir 10 years of my life. My mom's parents are Catholic and my mom rebelled against the Catholic church during college for many of the same reasons that you did, Toni. As she was starting her family, she I think wanted some peace with her parents and brought me up in a Catholic church. It was a different kind of Catholic -- it was charasmatic. The priest drove a harley and we meet for service in gyms and auditoriums. There was lots of praising Jesus and lifting of hands. So, not typical Catholic. But I did go through Catechism, learn my hail mary's and attend my first confession before I had my first communion.
My parents joined St. Luke not long after that. It was Lutheran. Half-way between my mom's Catholic and my Dad's methodist backgrounds. It had praise music and dancing and about a million kids running around. It was a good fit for our family. I was a little irritated because Lutherans don't allow kids to take communion until age 12. So, again, I had to stop taking it.
My confirmation class at St. Lukes were the "really bad kids." Many got pregnant, dropped out of school, etc. Even in 6th grade, I had a sense of their irreverence for church and it hurt my feelings because it felt like a personal blow against my God. Who I had such a deep connection with.
My 8th grade year was confirmation. I was homeschooled that year because I had such a hard time socially. (I was that kid that everyone picked on. Absolutely pathetic). However, that year was a blessing. I was reading one morning in a magazine about kids going on mission trips. I was so excited about the idea. It was the combination of everything I loved. God, faraway places, natural beauty, helping people and making a difference. I could tell that my life should be dedicated to that.
I asked my mom if I could go. She said, "If God tells me you can go, you can go."
I remember thinking. No problem. I know God wants me to go. So that's easy.
I prayed every day in the shower ... for months. And one morning, while praying, I felt my heart burst. "Go read your bible" I had an urgency that if I didn't read a bible that instant God would strike me with lightning. It was a very old-testament feeling. Like Moses and the bush or Samuel or Jonah. God had something to tell me.
No one was home. I grabbed a towel and ran out of the bathroom looking for a bible. Of course, that morning, of the 8,000 bibles that are usually all over our house, I couldn't find a single one. I remembered my dad kept the a living translation under his bed.
I grabbed it. "Really God, the whole thing....its pretty big."
"JUST READ"
I opened to 2 Corithians 9
" I really don’t need to write to you about this ministry of giving for the believers .For I know how eager you are to help, and I have been boasting to ...were ready to send an offering a year ago. In fact, it was your enthusiasm that stirred up many of the Macedonian believers to begin giving. But I am sending these brothers to be sure you really are ready, as I have been telling them, and that your money is all collected. I don’t want to be wrong in my boasting about you. ... So I thought I should send these brothers ahead of me to make sure the gift you promised is ready. But I want it to be a willing gift, not one given grudgingly. Remember this—a farmer who plants only a few seeds will get a small crop. But the one who plants generously will get a generous crop. You must each decide in your heart how much to give. And don’t give reluctantly or in response to pressure. “For God loves a person who gives cheerfully.” And God will generously provide all you need. Then you will always have everything you need and plenty left over to share with others
It was a letter to me, from God.
The year prior, I had gotten a lot of people to help a homeless ministry in Detroit because I was so excited. And I was certain that God was going to send someone to take me on another trip. I told my mom. Of course, she didnt believe me. I was 13. Not a week later did a woman from church come up to my mother and ask her if I could join her mission team to Ghana. She had dreamed of it and felt that God wanted me with her. My mom made lots of excuses. We couldn't afford it. I was too young. Her family would disapprove. God took each away. In a last ditch effort, she called my Catholic grandmother and asked her if I should join a lutheran mission team. My grandma said -- that's the Lord's work. (IMPOSSIBLE)
My teenage years and early 20s were filled with mission as my call. It was clear to me that God had given me this work. My faith was strong. My hands were ready and I followed my God anywhere he led me. Ghana, Mexico, Haiti. I saw miracles. I spoke in tongues. I had visions. I was in step with the spirit. But. Faith isn't so simple. For each of us, there are dark times too. My faith had maturing to do. I'll post a Part 2 to talk about the hard parts.
I have always been in love with God. I don't know if you know this, but my mom's pregnancy with me was an accident and her and my dad both prayed that God would claim me as his own. I think their prayer was more than listened to.
One of my very first memories in life was not being able to take communion. I was 3. I really wanted to. Really badly and couldn't understand why kids weren't allowed to have God too.
I was also raised Catholic for the fir 10 years of my life. My mom's parents are Catholic and my mom rebelled against the Catholic church during college for many of the same reasons that you did, Toni. As she was starting her family, she I think wanted some peace with her parents and brought me up in a Catholic church. It was a different kind of Catholic -- it was charasmatic. The priest drove a harley and we meet for service in gyms and auditoriums. There was lots of praising Jesus and lifting of hands. So, not typical Catholic. But I did go through Catechism, learn my hail mary's and attend my first confession before I had my first communion.
My parents joined St. Luke not long after that. It was Lutheran. Half-way between my mom's Catholic and my Dad's methodist backgrounds. It had praise music and dancing and about a million kids running around. It was a good fit for our family. I was a little irritated because Lutherans don't allow kids to take communion until age 12. So, again, I had to stop taking it.
My confirmation class at St. Lukes were the "really bad kids." Many got pregnant, dropped out of school, etc. Even in 6th grade, I had a sense of their irreverence for church and it hurt my feelings because it felt like a personal blow against my God. Who I had such a deep connection with.
My 8th grade year was confirmation. I was homeschooled that year because I had such a hard time socially. (I was that kid that everyone picked on. Absolutely pathetic). However, that year was a blessing. I was reading one morning in a magazine about kids going on mission trips. I was so excited about the idea. It was the combination of everything I loved. God, faraway places, natural beauty, helping people and making a difference. I could tell that my life should be dedicated to that.
I asked my mom if I could go. She said, "If God tells me you can go, you can go."
I remember thinking. No problem. I know God wants me to go. So that's easy.
I prayed every day in the shower ... for months. And one morning, while praying, I felt my heart burst. "Go read your bible" I had an urgency that if I didn't read a bible that instant God would strike me with lightning. It was a very old-testament feeling. Like Moses and the bush or Samuel or Jonah. God had something to tell me.
No one was home. I grabbed a towel and ran out of the bathroom looking for a bible. Of course, that morning, of the 8,000 bibles that are usually all over our house, I couldn't find a single one. I remembered my dad kept the a living translation under his bed.
I grabbed it. "Really God, the whole thing....its pretty big."
"JUST READ"
I opened to 2 Corithians 9
" I really don’t need to write to you about this ministry of giving for the believers .For I know how eager you are to help, and I have been boasting to ...were ready to send an offering a year ago. In fact, it was your enthusiasm that stirred up many of the Macedonian believers to begin giving. But I am sending these brothers to be sure you really are ready, as I have been telling them, and that your money is all collected. I don’t want to be wrong in my boasting about you. ... So I thought I should send these brothers ahead of me to make sure the gift you promised is ready. But I want it to be a willing gift, not one given grudgingly. Remember this—a farmer who plants only a few seeds will get a small crop. But the one who plants generously will get a generous crop. You must each decide in your heart how much to give. And don’t give reluctantly or in response to pressure. “For God loves a person who gives cheerfully.” And God will generously provide all you need. Then you will always have everything you need and plenty left over to share with others
It was a letter to me, from God.
The year prior, I had gotten a lot of people to help a homeless ministry in Detroit because I was so excited. And I was certain that God was going to send someone to take me on another trip. I told my mom. Of course, she didnt believe me. I was 13. Not a week later did a woman from church come up to my mother and ask her if I could join her mission team to Ghana. She had dreamed of it and felt that God wanted me with her. My mom made lots of excuses. We couldn't afford it. I was too young. Her family would disapprove. God took each away. In a last ditch effort, she called my Catholic grandmother and asked her if I should join a lutheran mission team. My grandma said -- that's the Lord's work. (IMPOSSIBLE)
My teenage years and early 20s were filled with mission as my call. It was clear to me that God had given me this work. My faith was strong. My hands were ready and I followed my God anywhere he led me. Ghana, Mexico, Haiti. I saw miracles. I spoke in tongues. I had visions. I was in step with the spirit. But. Faith isn't so simple. For each of us, there are dark times too. My faith had maturing to do. I'll post a Part 2 to talk about the hard parts.
Wednesday, October 26, 2011
a little on my religious background
I am 100% Polish. My parents were both raised in a hardcore Polish Catholic family. My mom even went to a Catholic School taught by nuns, where they attended mass everyday, until 9th grade. So there was no question that my parents were to raise me Catholic! We have always attended St. Mary's Catholic Church in Chelsea, which is very Catholic and only sings from our hymn books that are placed in each pew. I was Baptisted as an infant, attended Sunday School, Cadacisim school everyday Tuesday during the school year, received my first communion in 2nd grade (which also required us to be able to re-sight "The Lord's Prayer" or the "Our Father" and the "Apostle's Creed," "Hail Mary" and "Glory Be the Father" before we were worthy of having the body of Christ), attended a weekly youth group in high school, received confirmation, and was a leader at vacation bible school. We always said Grace before meals. We practiced Lent as Catholics: no meat on Fridays. And that was the way it was, no questions asked.
Well, at least that is how it was until I got a little older and started asking questions, when I was about 14 or 15. The Catholic Church is very hypocritical. Everything was as is with no questions asked, or really allowed to ask. Questions made people feel uncomfortable, which made me feel uncomfortable. The bible is taken VERY literal, which is some cases I find interesting. Sunday School and Cadacism seemed to be also brainwashing. It got to the point were I questioned my faith and started to go down the road as a non-believer. When I was 13, I was forced to go to Church every Sunday, or else I was grounded (and I parents went to the 8am mass, which was TERRIBLE for a teenager!) When I turned 16 I was allowed to go to the 10am mass. At this point in my life my brother Ronnie was living with us, and she made me and Samantha go together. It was soooo forced that we naturally rebelled. Our way of proving that we went to church was to bring a copy of the Church's newsletter home with us. So, we went (for a few seconds), I would pull in, Samantha would run in and get a newsletter, run back to the car and we would go to breakfast to waste an hours time before we could go home.
The week before I went to college, my parents had a very unfortunate event: the roof of their furniture store blew off in a storm. The insurance company refused to pay, claiming that it was water damage. My parents, in turn, sued them for the $1.8 million to get their business back up and running. In the mean time, court costs for 3yrs were wearing them down, they had to find other means of income and we almost lost our home that was up for foreclosure. Also, at the same time, while my parents were trying to sell what furniture they could save, out of a tent in the parking lot, my brother Ronnie developed a terrible Heroine addiction and lived in a vehicle in the parking lot in Ypsi. He also owed someone 12 grand, and arranged for them to come pick up 12 grand of furniture in the middle of the night to pay for his drug habit. During this period of time I continued to question my faith. There are so many things that do not make sense. Yet there are so many things, science based, that have no explanation. And so many things that are so perfect, that are miracles. I thought about all of these things, and thought that there must be a being greater than us! BUT... then, that's when I cursed GOD, I was sooo mad! If there was a God, how could he let all of these terrible things happen to my family.
While at college I only attended church 1 time in East Lansing. I had a few deep conversations with my friend Claire (who was raised in a religious Methodist family) about our beliefs, but that was it. At this point, until I met Jay, I only attended church on Christmas, Ash Wednesday, Easter and Mother's Day. My parents has also started to question God. They started attended a bible study, that was hosted at a neighbors home, who were Free Methodists. I attended a few times with my Mom when I was in town. My parents started to realize how dry our church had been, and started attending church regularly with the neighbors. This opened me up for other things. Until then, you were Catholic and that was that. Now, having my mom tell me that it didn't matter to what faith I belonged, as long as I believed in God it was OK with her. This was revealing!
When Jay and I started dating, I straight up told him that I didn't believed in God the way he does, and that I have struggled with my faith for a while. He did not like that and explained how important those things were to him. I told him that I would work hard on strengthening my faith, but that he had to be patient with me; it could take a while and I couldn't promise anything. To this day I have kept up on my part of the bargain, and so has he. We have taken a liking to ULC. We attend regularly, I have volunteered to make soup on Sundays, we have helped at events, Jay has joined in at St. Luke's for basketball with Pastor Scott and we have started to feel like we belong to the community. I know that we have a long way to go still, but we are definitely making progress. I could go more in depth with this, but for your sake I'll save it for another day! :)
Well, at least that is how it was until I got a little older and started asking questions, when I was about 14 or 15. The Catholic Church is very hypocritical. Everything was as is with no questions asked, or really allowed to ask. Questions made people feel uncomfortable, which made me feel uncomfortable. The bible is taken VERY literal, which is some cases I find interesting. Sunday School and Cadacism seemed to be also brainwashing. It got to the point were I questioned my faith and started to go down the road as a non-believer. When I was 13, I was forced to go to Church every Sunday, or else I was grounded (and I parents went to the 8am mass, which was TERRIBLE for a teenager!) When I turned 16 I was allowed to go to the 10am mass. At this point in my life my brother Ronnie was living with us, and she made me and Samantha go together. It was soooo forced that we naturally rebelled. Our way of proving that we went to church was to bring a copy of the Church's newsletter home with us. So, we went (for a few seconds), I would pull in, Samantha would run in and get a newsletter, run back to the car and we would go to breakfast to waste an hours time before we could go home.
The week before I went to college, my parents had a very unfortunate event: the roof of their furniture store blew off in a storm. The insurance company refused to pay, claiming that it was water damage. My parents, in turn, sued them for the $1.8 million to get their business back up and running. In the mean time, court costs for 3yrs were wearing them down, they had to find other means of income and we almost lost our home that was up for foreclosure. Also, at the same time, while my parents were trying to sell what furniture they could save, out of a tent in the parking lot, my brother Ronnie developed a terrible Heroine addiction and lived in a vehicle in the parking lot in Ypsi. He also owed someone 12 grand, and arranged for them to come pick up 12 grand of furniture in the middle of the night to pay for his drug habit. During this period of time I continued to question my faith. There are so many things that do not make sense. Yet there are so many things, science based, that have no explanation. And so many things that are so perfect, that are miracles. I thought about all of these things, and thought that there must be a being greater than us! BUT... then, that's when I cursed GOD, I was sooo mad! If there was a God, how could he let all of these terrible things happen to my family.
While at college I only attended church 1 time in East Lansing. I had a few deep conversations with my friend Claire (who was raised in a religious Methodist family) about our beliefs, but that was it. At this point, until I met Jay, I only attended church on Christmas, Ash Wednesday, Easter and Mother's Day. My parents has also started to question God. They started attended a bible study, that was hosted at a neighbors home, who were Free Methodists. I attended a few times with my Mom when I was in town. My parents started to realize how dry our church had been, and started attending church regularly with the neighbors. This opened me up for other things. Until then, you were Catholic and that was that. Now, having my mom tell me that it didn't matter to what faith I belonged, as long as I believed in God it was OK with her. This was revealing!
When Jay and I started dating, I straight up told him that I didn't believed in God the way he does, and that I have struggled with my faith for a while. He did not like that and explained how important those things were to him. I told him that I would work hard on strengthening my faith, but that he had to be patient with me; it could take a while and I couldn't promise anything. To this day I have kept up on my part of the bargain, and so has he. We have taken a liking to ULC. We attend regularly, I have volunteered to make soup on Sundays, we have helped at events, Jay has joined in at St. Luke's for basketball with Pastor Scott and we have started to feel like we belong to the community. I know that we have a long way to go still, but we are definitely making progress. I could go more in depth with this, but for your sake I'll save it for another day! :)
Wednesday, May 4, 2011
Second Post: Faith Together
So I remember you asking me what Lutherans believe so that you might get a better perspective on Adam's beliefs. I feel pretty safe in saying that Adam's beliefs are likely to be all over the map. I decided better to do a series of posts on theological differences among the various churches out there and worship styles (tying back to the history of were various church practices came from)
But before I do that, I wanted to post about the importance of developing a joint faith. Contiuning to communicate about what feeds your faith and the struggles you have in faith so that you can support each other in the journey. Finding a church is for both of you and raising your children and what you teach them about God is also from both of you. You should be feel 100% authentic -- even if in the beginning it involves compromise.
Ulrich came from a very traditional background (churchwise). He went to a very litergical service (lots of reading in the bulletion) with classical music (nothing was ever newer than 1800). I came from St. Luke's. Very charismatic. Holy Spirit lead. (which is incredibly not Lutheran BTW). Both Ulrich and I, grew up in Misourri Synod Lutheran Churches. Which meant there were particular seminaries where our pastors learned theology. There were certain rules about who could lead various parts of worship. There were practices of first communion and confirmation.
In Davis, we setttled in the Evangelical Lutheran Church -- which is actually quite different. It is the liberal verion of the Lutheran church - female pastors, most of the congregation are dems, the bible isn't intrepreted so literally. The church had 3 services - 2 in the morning that were rather structured and traditional. 1 in the evening which was "alternative." We went to both as a compromise. Ulrich sang in the choir and I learned some of the joy in why people read litergies. The evening service was a bit different for both of us, in that it wasn't "contemporary" or in the same style as most non-liturgical services with singing, prayer then message. Rather it was experimental. We sang, sometimes we baked bread or did art projects, sometimes we had prayer services lighting candles and sitting in silence. I found it was the heart of how I love to worship. Actions that have deep connections with the word and many ways to come together in prayer.
We both were really fed by the combination of things at our old church and our faith's have grown together. Our worship styles are more simliar. Ulrich wants more than a traditional service now. I want more than the classic "contemporary" service. While the hybrid that we enjoy is hard to find, we are both more flexible and open to more worship settings than we were before.
I say all this because as you grow in your marraige. Adam is the most important person with whom you will continue to walk. Dialog about what feeds you and what you need from church is important. It is also important to push each other to "grow" to look beyond where you are now and see if God has a richer, deeper experience out there for you.
I was incredibly biased against weathly people. I felt my call was to serve the impoverished of the world. And God called me to love more deeply, more openly. And led me to lead that evening worship service at my church. To grow the body of believers by reaching out to cynical middle class athiests and showing them how God can exist. I was blessed by that experience and have come away with a deeper understanding of God. But it wasn't without discomfort. It took time for me to learn to be at home in a church that was different from what I was used to. But I knew that God wanted me there....
So...
some rambling about church....
But before I do that, I wanted to post about the importance of developing a joint faith. Contiuning to communicate about what feeds your faith and the struggles you have in faith so that you can support each other in the journey. Finding a church is for both of you and raising your children and what you teach them about God is also from both of you. You should be feel 100% authentic -- even if in the beginning it involves compromise.
Ulrich came from a very traditional background (churchwise). He went to a very litergical service (lots of reading in the bulletion) with classical music (nothing was ever newer than 1800). I came from St. Luke's. Very charismatic. Holy Spirit lead. (which is incredibly not Lutheran BTW). Both Ulrich and I, grew up in Misourri Synod Lutheran Churches. Which meant there were particular seminaries where our pastors learned theology. There were certain rules about who could lead various parts of worship. There were practices of first communion and confirmation.
In Davis, we setttled in the Evangelical Lutheran Church -- which is actually quite different. It is the liberal verion of the Lutheran church - female pastors, most of the congregation are dems, the bible isn't intrepreted so literally. The church had 3 services - 2 in the morning that were rather structured and traditional. 1 in the evening which was "alternative." We went to both as a compromise. Ulrich sang in the choir and I learned some of the joy in why people read litergies. The evening service was a bit different for both of us, in that it wasn't "contemporary" or in the same style as most non-liturgical services with singing, prayer then message. Rather it was experimental. We sang, sometimes we baked bread or did art projects, sometimes we had prayer services lighting candles and sitting in silence. I found it was the heart of how I love to worship. Actions that have deep connections with the word and many ways to come together in prayer.
We both were really fed by the combination of things at our old church and our faith's have grown together. Our worship styles are more simliar. Ulrich wants more than a traditional service now. I want more than the classic "contemporary" service. While the hybrid that we enjoy is hard to find, we are both more flexible and open to more worship settings than we were before.
I say all this because as you grow in your marraige. Adam is the most important person with whom you will continue to walk. Dialog about what feeds you and what you need from church is important. It is also important to push each other to "grow" to look beyond where you are now and see if God has a richer, deeper experience out there for you.
I was incredibly biased against weathly people. I felt my call was to serve the impoverished of the world. And God called me to love more deeply, more openly. And led me to lead that evening worship service at my church. To grow the body of believers by reaching out to cynical middle class athiests and showing them how God can exist. I was blessed by that experience and have come away with a deeper understanding of God. But it wasn't without discomfort. It took time for me to learn to be at home in a church that was different from what I was used to. But I knew that God wanted me there....
So...
some rambling about church....
Tuesday, May 3, 2011
First of many posts: A Bit of Background
So, your church is awesome! I can see why you have a difficult time finding a new place. The music, the pace -- its both heartfelt and intellectual. The pastor is a cool guy who really explains things and the musicians are incredbily talented.
So if you are wondering why I was lukewarm just after the service, I want to give you some background:
When Ulrich was in 2nd grade, he did a book report on Dante's Inferno (not light reading for a little kid). Around that same time and for the years following, his family experienced a number of tragities. His uncle died suddenly, his uncle's wife commited suicide and his grandparents died. From that point, he lost his childhood. He wrestled with deep issues of faith - heaven, hell, life, death. The more he learned the more he had a difficult time understanding it all.
His father is an interesting man. He is deeply educated in the sciences and he went to seminary but didn't become a pastor. So -- he taught Ulrich every detail about how the universe functions and the complete history of the Bible (including the inconsistancies, historical flaws, etc).
Ulrich was left with a crisis of faith that has lead him to deep anxiety -- Does God really exist? Is afterlife real? His heart so wants to believe but his mind can't wrap around it.
When we got married, he embraced feeling for the first time. He let go and let love into his life. It was for him the greatest miracle to love and to be loved. And his aniexty and issues with faith dissappeared. God lead us to a church that was intellectual -- where people had deep understanding of science and the bible and we discussed doubts and possibilities openly. It deepened both of our faiths greatly to have a community that we could engage with and the Holy Spirit spoke to us and worked through us during that time. We saw many people come to faith.
Moving to Livermore has been a call to the wilderness. Our marraige has come along in time and Eddie is around eating up marraige points. We haven't found that community of believers who can talk deeply and openly about faith with us. In total, this has brought Ulrich back to a place of anxiety. Fearing death. Fearing eternity. Fearing the unknown.
For Lent this year we dived into his anxiety. We worked on our marriage and making space to love each other. We talked deeply about life and death. And we struggled together with the concepts of eternity, spirits, death, afterlife, ressurection. We had a hope that the season of lent - the time of Jesus's wilderness we would struggle with these things. But that Easter, in its joy, would raise us up to a time of life, peace and closeness with God. Lent and Easter have always been intense for us -- they have always been times of spiritual renewal.
This year, however, the struggle has stretched a bit beyond Easter. We made break-throughs but even a few days before I left, we were in deep conversations about death still.
SOOOOO....
To hear a sermon on death with so many pointed assumptions about the mechanics of how we get to heaven and how it all works was the absolute worst sermon for me to hear last week. I was done about hearing about Jesus on the cross and ready to hear about a Jesus who is alive and among us today.
So I apologize about being a little sour.
So if you are wondering why I was lukewarm just after the service, I want to give you some background:
When Ulrich was in 2nd grade, he did a book report on Dante's Inferno (not light reading for a little kid). Around that same time and for the years following, his family experienced a number of tragities. His uncle died suddenly, his uncle's wife commited suicide and his grandparents died. From that point, he lost his childhood. He wrestled with deep issues of faith - heaven, hell, life, death. The more he learned the more he had a difficult time understanding it all.
His father is an interesting man. He is deeply educated in the sciences and he went to seminary but didn't become a pastor. So -- he taught Ulrich every detail about how the universe functions and the complete history of the Bible (including the inconsistancies, historical flaws, etc).
Ulrich was left with a crisis of faith that has lead him to deep anxiety -- Does God really exist? Is afterlife real? His heart so wants to believe but his mind can't wrap around it.
When we got married, he embraced feeling for the first time. He let go and let love into his life. It was for him the greatest miracle to love and to be loved. And his aniexty and issues with faith dissappeared. God lead us to a church that was intellectual -- where people had deep understanding of science and the bible and we discussed doubts and possibilities openly. It deepened both of our faiths greatly to have a community that we could engage with and the Holy Spirit spoke to us and worked through us during that time. We saw many people come to faith.
Moving to Livermore has been a call to the wilderness. Our marraige has come along in time and Eddie is around eating up marraige points. We haven't found that community of believers who can talk deeply and openly about faith with us. In total, this has brought Ulrich back to a place of anxiety. Fearing death. Fearing eternity. Fearing the unknown.
For Lent this year we dived into his anxiety. We worked on our marriage and making space to love each other. We talked deeply about life and death. And we struggled together with the concepts of eternity, spirits, death, afterlife, ressurection. We had a hope that the season of lent - the time of Jesus's wilderness we would struggle with these things. But that Easter, in its joy, would raise us up to a time of life, peace and closeness with God. Lent and Easter have always been intense for us -- they have always been times of spiritual renewal.
This year, however, the struggle has stretched a bit beyond Easter. We made break-throughs but even a few days before I left, we were in deep conversations about death still.
SOOOOO....
To hear a sermon on death with so many pointed assumptions about the mechanics of how we get to heaven and how it all works was the absolute worst sermon for me to hear last week. I was done about hearing about Jesus on the cross and ready to hear about a Jesus who is alive and among us today.
So I apologize about being a little sour.
Monday, April 25, 2011
CFF Objection #7: Church History is Littered with Oppression and Violence
As a history buff/teacher, this has definitely been a glaring issue for me for many years. I've had a great struggle with the fact that the church has acted in grave hypocrisy throughout its history...so when I saw this chapter title I was definitely intrigued!
Q1: "Isn't it true that the church through the centuries has intentionally glossed over instances of abuse?"
A1: "I would make a clear line of demarcation between people who are part of 'the church' and the institutional churches...just because a person is part of a church doesn't necessarily mean he or she is a follower of Jesus. Some people are cultural Christians but not authentic Christians." "Jesus talked about this distinction two millennia go. And certainly through the centuries much has been done in the name of Christianity that does not reflect his teachings...At the same time, we should recognize that there has often been a minority voice that has spoken out against abuses that some institutional churches have perpetrated."
R1: It took a LONG time for me to be able to make this distinction and eventually overcome my distaste for Christianity enough to open my mind and heart to AUTHENTIC Christianity. I think that for a lot of people without Christian upbringing, reading Jesus' teachings - the words in red - can go along way to opening eyes to what the religion is really supposed to be about. Unfortunately, the institutional churches have become so political throughout history that I think they do more to repel potential believers than to welcome them. It's still hard to separate the two though; first of all, there are plenty of "cultural Christians" who give the religion a bad name, and the whole "guilty by association" still creeps in from time to time. Unfortunately it seems that the religion has strayed from its roots:
"Part of the reason for Christianity's rapid spread, historians have remarked, was simply that the early Christians were such nice people. The very kindness of the Christians and their service to the poor and downtrodden attracted new adherents...The lifestyle of Christians matched their teachings, so that many early Christians were not afraid to say 'Imitate us as we imitate Christ.' Unfortunately, in contemporary evangelicalism sometimes people say, 'Don't look at us, look at Christ'."
It's my goal to be a Christian that leads by example - that allows non-believers a glimpse of true, authentic Christianity...rather than the modern, shove-down-your-throat version that seems to have become so popular...I just don't understand how those Christians can possibly think that their attitude/actions are going to in any way accomplish our charge of spreading the faith. It seems to me that it does far more harm than good.
Q1: "Isn't it true that the church through the centuries has intentionally glossed over instances of abuse?"
A1: "I would make a clear line of demarcation between people who are part of 'the church' and the institutional churches...just because a person is part of a church doesn't necessarily mean he or she is a follower of Jesus. Some people are cultural Christians but not authentic Christians." "Jesus talked about this distinction two millennia go. And certainly through the centuries much has been done in the name of Christianity that does not reflect his teachings...At the same time, we should recognize that there has often been a minority voice that has spoken out against abuses that some institutional churches have perpetrated."
R1: It took a LONG time for me to be able to make this distinction and eventually overcome my distaste for Christianity enough to open my mind and heart to AUTHENTIC Christianity. I think that for a lot of people without Christian upbringing, reading Jesus' teachings - the words in red - can go along way to opening eyes to what the religion is really supposed to be about. Unfortunately, the institutional churches have become so political throughout history that I think they do more to repel potential believers than to welcome them. It's still hard to separate the two though; first of all, there are plenty of "cultural Christians" who give the religion a bad name, and the whole "guilty by association" still creeps in from time to time. Unfortunately it seems that the religion has strayed from its roots:
"Part of the reason for Christianity's rapid spread, historians have remarked, was simply that the early Christians were such nice people. The very kindness of the Christians and their service to the poor and downtrodden attracted new adherents...The lifestyle of Christians matched their teachings, so that many early Christians were not afraid to say 'Imitate us as we imitate Christ.' Unfortunately, in contemporary evangelicalism sometimes people say, 'Don't look at us, look at Christ'."
It's my goal to be a Christian that leads by example - that allows non-believers a glimpse of true, authentic Christianity...rather than the modern, shove-down-your-throat version that seems to have become so popular...I just don't understand how those Christians can possibly think that their attitude/actions are going to in any way accomplish our charge of spreading the faith. It seems to me that it does far more harm than good.
Friday, April 22, 2011
Biblestudy Blog
Instead of inviting people to this blog, I used another blog of mine for the virtual biblestudy. There are quite a few people that I know that are in similar places in regards to faith. I have been missing them. They are scattered across the country.... so as I posted the biblestudy, I thought -- I would like to invite this and that person - to hear their comments.
So I did it in a seperate place.
It is Good Friday. As I reflect on the day ... I am reminded that faith is a journey that is not always fulfilling. Jesus was doing miracles, helping people, forgiving people, showing compassion. Then things changed. Everyone turned against him. Everyone abandoned him. Even God. At least that's what it was like. People mocked him. He suffered. And God didn't come to stop the suffering or to even comfort him in those last moments.
But as I listened to the text last night ... as Jesus died the curtain in the temple ripped... the Spirit of God was released into the world. There was an earthquake and graves were opened and people raised from the dead. God was all around. All present the moment Jesus died. But Jesus didn't feel that. He felt the coldness of death. Sunday morning he woke up in resurrection. A holy mystery God present in and with him. And the sting and sadness of suffering was light years away.
I think of seasons in our life. Sometimes God is shaping us and it doesn't feel like God is with us. But God has purpose in our emptiness and our boredom. He has purpose in our longing. He has strength and is working in and around us. We just have to trust and listen.
So I did it in a seperate place.
It is Good Friday. As I reflect on the day ... I am reminded that faith is a journey that is not always fulfilling. Jesus was doing miracles, helping people, forgiving people, showing compassion. Then things changed. Everyone turned against him. Everyone abandoned him. Even God. At least that's what it was like. People mocked him. He suffered. And God didn't come to stop the suffering or to even comfort him in those last moments.
But as I listened to the text last night ... as Jesus died the curtain in the temple ripped... the Spirit of God was released into the world. There was an earthquake and graves were opened and people raised from the dead. God was all around. All present the moment Jesus died. But Jesus didn't feel that. He felt the coldness of death. Sunday morning he woke up in resurrection. A holy mystery God present in and with him. And the sting and sadness of suffering was light years away.
I think of seasons in our life. Sometimes God is shaping us and it doesn't feel like God is with us. But God has purpose in our emptiness and our boredom. He has purpose in our longing. He has strength and is working in and around us. We just have to trust and listen.
Sunday, April 10, 2011
Lent
Now that I'm back from Spring Break I'm back on the horse! Just a mini-post tonight though so that you have the chance to get caught up :-)
Adam and I had multiple discussions about Lent this year and we weren't really able to come up with good ideas of something we should give up; so instead we decided to reignite our search for a home church. The basketball coach Adam worked with invited us to his church, so we've been going there for the past few weeks. Adam likes the church, I think it reminds him some of St. Luke's...but I'm still not feeling connected. When we went to ResLife in GR for the first time I immediately felt the Holy Spirit wash over me - the music, the message, all the pieces were in place. While the messages have been decent at this new church, the rest of the pieces of the puzzle are missing for me. Haven't felt anything at any of the churches that we've been to in Kalamazoo; and I feel like I should feel something when I go to church. Adam and I were talking in the car after service today and he was saying that he's beginning to wonder if we're being too picky. That maybe we can't expect to feel a connection right away, that we need to build that connection.
But I feel like you should be able to feel the Holy Spirit while you're at church - what's the point of going if you're not really connected? We haven't been to a church yet that feels alive to me.
Are my expectations too high? And if so, why?! I just don't understand why it would be the accepted norm that going to church is more of a "going through the motions" experience than a connected, spiritual experience. Am I being selfish/too picky?
Adam and I had multiple discussions about Lent this year and we weren't really able to come up with good ideas of something we should give up; so instead we decided to reignite our search for a home church. The basketball coach Adam worked with invited us to his church, so we've been going there for the past few weeks. Adam likes the church, I think it reminds him some of St. Luke's...but I'm still not feeling connected. When we went to ResLife in GR for the first time I immediately felt the Holy Spirit wash over me - the music, the message, all the pieces were in place. While the messages have been decent at this new church, the rest of the pieces of the puzzle are missing for me. Haven't felt anything at any of the churches that we've been to in Kalamazoo; and I feel like I should feel something when I go to church. Adam and I were talking in the car after service today and he was saying that he's beginning to wonder if we're being too picky. That maybe we can't expect to feel a connection right away, that we need to build that connection.
But I feel like you should be able to feel the Holy Spirit while you're at church - what's the point of going if you're not really connected? We haven't been to a church yet that feels alive to me.
Are my expectations too high? And if so, why?! I just don't understand why it would be the accepted norm that going to church is more of a "going through the motions" experience than a connected, spiritual experience. Am I being selfish/too picky?
Monday, March 28, 2011
CFF Objection #6: A Loving God Would Never Torture People in Hell
Ok, here's a big one: Hell. I think this is probably the chapter that has caused the biggest transformation in my thinking/understanding of faith topics. And Here We Go! (siren) *haha, had to get the Chelsea Derby reference in ;-)
Q1: "How should we even approach the topic of hell?"
A1: "...people should try to set aside their feelings. The basis of their evaluation should be whether hell is a morally just or morally right state of affairs, not whether they like or dislike the concept. And it's important to understand that if the God of Christianity is real, he hates hell and he hates people going there. The Bible is very clear; God says he takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked."
R1: The topic of hell definitely does incite a wide range of emotional responses, so I think this was a really important statement to start off with. It's very easy to slip into a reaction to the imagery of hell rather than consider it logically. And with that frame of mind, let's continue...
Q2: How could a loving God torture someone forever?
A2: "hell is not a torture chamber...The essence of hell is relational...In the Bible, hell is separation or banishment from the most beautiful being in the world--God himself. It is exclusion from anything that matters, from all value, not only from God but also from those who have come to know and love him."
"hell was not part of the original creation. Hell is God's fall-back position. Hell is something God was forced to make because people chose to rebel against him and turn against what was best for them and the purpose for which they were created."
"Any figure of speech has a literal point. What is figurative is the burning flame; what is literal is that this is a place of utter heartbreak."
R2: Wow, lots of good points in here...ones that I have never really been able to wrap my head around before. Especially the idea that hell was created as a reaction to the actions of man. It takes the "punishment" factor out of it and presents it more as a "logical consequence."
Another important piece here is the whole understanding that "hell is not a torture chamber." I think that the imagery of hell unfortunately became far more powerful throughout history than its true nature; and it's that misunderstanding that has pushed some people away from Christianity.
With the "new" understanding that hell is not a torture chamber but that it is the absence of a relationship with God; wouldn't it be safe to say then that the majority of people on Earth are already living in hell?
Q3: "You're saying people choose hell?"
A3: "by the way we live our lives we're either preparing ourselves for being in God's presence and enjoying him for eternity, or we're preparing ourselves for an existence where we try to make ourselves the center of the universe and we have no interest in being with God or the people who love him...So hell is not simply a sentence. It is that, but it's also the end of a path that is chosen, to some degree, in this life right here and now, day by day."
R3: Man does this kind of rock our world when it comes to how we view hell...again the whole "logical consequence" comes into play. It's pretty hard to justify being mad at God for the concept of hell if you consider it in the light of it being a choice that we have made. He gives us the opportunity to escape it, it's up to us to do what is necessary to take advantage of that opportunity.
The quotes themselves say more than I can really, but I can say this for sure: my understanding of hell was completely changed by this chapter. More to come next week :-)
Q1: "How should we even approach the topic of hell?"
A1: "...people should try to set aside their feelings. The basis of their evaluation should be whether hell is a morally just or morally right state of affairs, not whether they like or dislike the concept. And it's important to understand that if the God of Christianity is real, he hates hell and he hates people going there. The Bible is very clear; God says he takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked."
R1: The topic of hell definitely does incite a wide range of emotional responses, so I think this was a really important statement to start off with. It's very easy to slip into a reaction to the imagery of hell rather than consider it logically. And with that frame of mind, let's continue...
Q2: How could a loving God torture someone forever?
A2: "hell is not a torture chamber...The essence of hell is relational...In the Bible, hell is separation or banishment from the most beautiful being in the world--God himself. It is exclusion from anything that matters, from all value, not only from God but also from those who have come to know and love him."
"hell was not part of the original creation. Hell is God's fall-back position. Hell is something God was forced to make because people chose to rebel against him and turn against what was best for them and the purpose for which they were created."
"Any figure of speech has a literal point. What is figurative is the burning flame; what is literal is that this is a place of utter heartbreak."
R2: Wow, lots of good points in here...ones that I have never really been able to wrap my head around before. Especially the idea that hell was created as a reaction to the actions of man. It takes the "punishment" factor out of it and presents it more as a "logical consequence."
Another important piece here is the whole understanding that "hell is not a torture chamber." I think that the imagery of hell unfortunately became far more powerful throughout history than its true nature; and it's that misunderstanding that has pushed some people away from Christianity.
With the "new" understanding that hell is not a torture chamber but that it is the absence of a relationship with God; wouldn't it be safe to say then that the majority of people on Earth are already living in hell?
Q3: "You're saying people choose hell?"
A3: "by the way we live our lives we're either preparing ourselves for being in God's presence and enjoying him for eternity, or we're preparing ourselves for an existence where we try to make ourselves the center of the universe and we have no interest in being with God or the people who love him...So hell is not simply a sentence. It is that, but it's also the end of a path that is chosen, to some degree, in this life right here and now, day by day."
R3: Man does this kind of rock our world when it comes to how we view hell...again the whole "logical consequence" comes into play. It's pretty hard to justify being mad at God for the concept of hell if you consider it in the light of it being a choice that we have made. He gives us the opportunity to escape it, it's up to us to do what is necessary to take advantage of that opportunity.
The quotes themselves say more than I can really, but I can say this for sure: my understanding of hell was completely changed by this chapter. More to come next week :-)
Monday, March 21, 2011
A question of call
So you've been wondering what you can help with. Here's a bit of verbal diareahh to get the ball rolling.... excuse the randomness of this post. I'm not sure what I'm trying to say.
Well sister, this blog might help you to see that no matter how far down the path of faith one might be -- it never fully resolves itself. As much as I thought I knew what God was up to over here, I am left now, in Lent, in the Wilderness, wondering WTF?
I'm trying my best at my new sister-in-laws Biblestudy. But I got in trouble for swearing. They are really hardcore and don't appreciate so much my relaxed views on faith. I am connecting with them dispite difficulties. The Biblestudy is about marraige and I'm the only one there who has been married for more than a year. So as they bring up issues in marraige I have plenty to share and am not afraid to talk about my life or issues that Ulrich and I have had along the road. It seems to be helpful for them.
I'm studying Romans with Ulrich now and trying to make sense of all the theological differences among all the different churches out there. Realizing the flavor of my faith is distinctly Lutheran. Much of what I believe doesn't jive with what they believe. As they are more Baptist / Non-denominational in their theology.
Also, The girl who moved into the back house has stopped really talking to me and I don't know why and the pastor of our church won't respond to my emails. The church feels daunting and uninviting...even though I've been trying to carve out a space for us there. So again I feel disconnected ... do I need to dig deeper? Am I still not accepting? Or am I not accepting what God has for me? Why can't I connect with people? Or do I not accept the level at which I am connecting with people.
It feels like a wheel out of balance. Wobbly. I feel disjointed and out of place in my communications with people. At the same time, I keep having a sense that I want to pastor folks. Start a church or a new ministry. Or help a pastor build their church. I'm not sure what it is exactly but I feel restless.
Well sister, this blog might help you to see that no matter how far down the path of faith one might be -- it never fully resolves itself. As much as I thought I knew what God was up to over here, I am left now, in Lent, in the Wilderness, wondering WTF?
I'm trying my best at my new sister-in-laws Biblestudy. But I got in trouble for swearing. They are really hardcore and don't appreciate so much my relaxed views on faith. I am connecting with them dispite difficulties. The Biblestudy is about marraige and I'm the only one there who has been married for more than a year. So as they bring up issues in marraige I have plenty to share and am not afraid to talk about my life or issues that Ulrich and I have had along the road. It seems to be helpful for them.
I'm studying Romans with Ulrich now and trying to make sense of all the theological differences among all the different churches out there. Realizing the flavor of my faith is distinctly Lutheran. Much of what I believe doesn't jive with what they believe. As they are more Baptist / Non-denominational in their theology.
Also, The girl who moved into the back house has stopped really talking to me and I don't know why and the pastor of our church won't respond to my emails. The church feels daunting and uninviting...even though I've been trying to carve out a space for us there. So again I feel disconnected ... do I need to dig deeper? Am I still not accepting? Or am I not accepting what God has for me? Why can't I connect with people? Or do I not accept the level at which I am connecting with people.
It feels like a wheel out of balance. Wobbly. I feel disjointed and out of place in my communications with people. At the same time, I keep having a sense that I want to pastor folks. Start a church or a new ministry. Or help a pastor build their church. I'm not sure what it is exactly but I feel restless.
Tuesday, March 8, 2011
CFF Objection #5 Continued...last ...time :-)
Q4: " Isn't it unfair to condemn them [people who live in places where the gospel isn't discussed/allowed] when they never heard about Jesus and merely followed the religious traditions of their parents?"
A4: "We are clearly told that wherever we live - in whatever culture, in whatever nation - he is within reach of every one of us." "If a person genuinely and sincerely seeks after him, there will be some way God makes available for that person to hear of him." "Virtually every Muslim who has come to follow Christ has done so, first, because of the love of Christ expressed through a Christian, or second, because of a vision, a dream, or some other supernatural intervention."
R4: Yet again, the book managed to pinpoint a key issue for me. I think it makes a pretty big claim to report the experiences of "virtually every Muslim" I would be interested to see some sort of data on that...I'm still not sure the response totally tackles the question though - I mean, let's be honest, most Muslims have at least HEARD of Christianity. What about followers of indigenous beliefs in more remote areas (perhaps some smaller African communities would be a good example). Missionaries have not been able to travel to every corner of the globe after all. The response to that, then, would be the "supernatural" approach...again, I would like to see some data/read some testimonies on that. I completely believe that if someone is seeking God, they will find him. But how does someone who is completely removed from even the idea of a monotheistic religion come to the realization that they should be seeking him? If God's purpose in our creation was for us to seek him and create a relationship with him; why would he design it so that some people would be at such a great disadvantage comparatively? If God created Adam and Eve, and they knew he was the creator, how did polytheistic religions even come to be? Is it really believable that that knowledge was somehow lost? Early cultures were so heavily based on story-telling, how could that story be forgotten/so grossly altered? Kind of went off on a tangent there...oh well. Can you tell that I don't really prepare these responses and that I totally fly by the seat of my pants? lol...at least it provides for an authentic response :-)
Q5: "If Jesus is the truth, why do so many people reject him?"
A5: "Because he calls you to die to yourself. Any time truth involves a total commitment in which you bring yourself to complete humility, to the surrender of the will, you will always have resistance. Christ violates our power and autonomy. He challenges us in areas of purity...I have never had a problem knowing what is right and wrong in most situations; what I have lacked is the will to do what is right. That's where Christ comes in. He says if you'll bring all of yourself to him, he will not only give you eternal life, but he will change what you want to do in this life."
R5: That response pretty much hits the nail on the head and doesn't really leave a lot of room for critique. To be a true follower of Christ you really do have to give up your control - which is something that we as humans LOVE to have (I know I certainly do...control freak/perfectionist/I've been called it all...) It is SOOOOO hard to give that up and to truly release yourself from that desire of power. But, the Bible says, "You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart." I would say that there's some misunderstanding of that quote...in the sense that "all your heart" doesn't just mean that you really want to find him...it means that you really want to find him AND that you're willing to follow him regardless of the path he demands. Of course, to some extent we must take control of our own destiny (and you'll never convince me that's not true! lol); but it's been hard work for me to "give it up to God" on the big stuff. BUT - he has delivered when I have...case in point: getting the job offer the day before the wedding.
A4: "We are clearly told that wherever we live - in whatever culture, in whatever nation - he is within reach of every one of us." "If a person genuinely and sincerely seeks after him, there will be some way God makes available for that person to hear of him." "Virtually every Muslim who has come to follow Christ has done so, first, because of the love of Christ expressed through a Christian, or second, because of a vision, a dream, or some other supernatural intervention."
R4: Yet again, the book managed to pinpoint a key issue for me. I think it makes a pretty big claim to report the experiences of "virtually every Muslim" I would be interested to see some sort of data on that...I'm still not sure the response totally tackles the question though - I mean, let's be honest, most Muslims have at least HEARD of Christianity. What about followers of indigenous beliefs in more remote areas (perhaps some smaller African communities would be a good example). Missionaries have not been able to travel to every corner of the globe after all. The response to that, then, would be the "supernatural" approach...again, I would like to see some data/read some testimonies on that. I completely believe that if someone is seeking God, they will find him. But how does someone who is completely removed from even the idea of a monotheistic religion come to the realization that they should be seeking him? If God's purpose in our creation was for us to seek him and create a relationship with him; why would he design it so that some people would be at such a great disadvantage comparatively? If God created Adam and Eve, and they knew he was the creator, how did polytheistic religions even come to be? Is it really believable that that knowledge was somehow lost? Early cultures were so heavily based on story-telling, how could that story be forgotten/so grossly altered? Kind of went off on a tangent there...oh well. Can you tell that I don't really prepare these responses and that I totally fly by the seat of my pants? lol...at least it provides for an authentic response :-)
Q5: "If Jesus is the truth, why do so many people reject him?"
A5: "Because he calls you to die to yourself. Any time truth involves a total commitment in which you bring yourself to complete humility, to the surrender of the will, you will always have resistance. Christ violates our power and autonomy. He challenges us in areas of purity...I have never had a problem knowing what is right and wrong in most situations; what I have lacked is the will to do what is right. That's where Christ comes in. He says if you'll bring all of yourself to him, he will not only give you eternal life, but he will change what you want to do in this life."
R5: That response pretty much hits the nail on the head and doesn't really leave a lot of room for critique. To be a true follower of Christ you really do have to give up your control - which is something that we as humans LOVE to have (I know I certainly do...control freak/perfectionist/I've been called it all...) It is SOOOOO hard to give that up and to truly release yourself from that desire of power. But, the Bible says, "You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart." I would say that there's some misunderstanding of that quote...in the sense that "all your heart" doesn't just mean that you really want to find him...it means that you really want to find him AND that you're willing to follow him regardless of the path he demands. Of course, to some extent we must take control of our own destiny (and you'll never convince me that's not true! lol); but it's been hard work for me to "give it up to God" on the big stuff. BUT - he has delivered when I have...case in point: getting the job offer the day before the wedding.
Sunday, February 27, 2011
CFF Objection #5 Continued...
I think I'll spend a little more time hashing this one out since it has been such a big issue for me - not to mention that, despite what the length of my previous post may have suggested, I didn't really cover that much material last time.
Q2: "There are moral-living Muslims, Jews, Christians, Mormons, and Hindus. Isn't how a person lives and treats his neighbor more important than what he believes theologically?"
A2: "this question makes the assumption that morality is what life is all about...Jesus didn't come into this world to make bad people good; he came so that those who are dead to God can come alive to God."
"Though it's hard to comprehend, the worst thing is to say to God that you don't need him." "The pattern in Exodus is threefold...redemption, righteousness, worship." "If I try to work myself toward goodness, I am essentially saying I don't need to be redeemed by God. I am my own redeemer. Any person, good or bad in our eyes, who says that is in violation of a fundamental principle of God's revelation, which is that redemption is the first step."
R2: There were kind of two parts to the response on that question so I guess I'll take them one at a time. The first part gave a perspective that I don't think I have ever considered before; but it also kind of brought up even more questions for me. Theologically speaking, then, what is our purpose in life - and for that matter, the purpose of our creation? To seek God? That seems like it would suggest a pretty self-centered reason for the creation of humans (on God's part). Maybe it's just because I'm coming from a "new-Christian" point-of-view; but it almost seems to me that morality, good stewardship of the Earth, etc. would be more "noble" reasons for our creation. But, I suppose, what would all of that matter to God in the end? Hmmm...the gears are turning on this one.
This response offered me perhaps my first true glimpse into the rationale for the system of heaven and hell. Never before had I considered the whole process in that light - that the greatest sin is to reject God. More to come on heaven and hell with Objection #6
Q3: "People say Gandhi lived a more virtuous life than most Christians; why should he be sent to hell just because he wasn't a follower of Jesus?"
A3: "God himself does not send anybody to heaven or to hell; the person chooses to respond to the grace of God or to reject the grace of God."
"Scripture tells us nobody is really good until he or she is first redeemed."
From Abraham's story in the Bible we are given the response, "Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?"
"This means we can be absolutely confident that whatever God does in the case of Gandhi, or any other person, he will do what is right."
R3: This is definitely one of the questions that hung me up for years; and I'm still not totally satisfied with the response given by the book - he almost suggests that maybe God would bend the rules for certain people? However; by applying my new understanding of what Hell really is, it is easier to accept the process. The three-step process mentioned above clearly lays out God's "order of operations" - from this point of view, it doesn't matter how much good you do if at the foundation you are still committing the greatest sin possible (rejecting God).
The whole system is a testament to free will - hell is more of a natural consequence to a choice that we make rather than a punishment. (again, this is kind of skipping ahead to O#6, but having read it already it helps to understand this section a little better) Hell is not a place of eternal flame and torture - those are both just statements of imagery. What hell actually is is the absence of God. In all reality then, there are many people who are already living in hell here on Earth. What makes hell different in the afterlife is that they will no longer be ignorant of that absence - at that point they will be fully aware of the choice that they have made and its consequence. It's the knowledge and understanding that you made the choice to be absent from God, when he gave you the choice, that will be the torture.
Some of the pieces of the puzzle are beginning to fit together...this book is definitely making me consider a lot of my questions from a new perspective.
Saturday, February 26, 2011
Accepting Christians
So, my future sister-in-law is hosting a biblestudy with all of her recently married friends to study how we can be better women and wives. Great idea. I want to be supportive.
I went to biblestudy today and found myself a minority in that -- most people there had the theology that I think bothers you. This in your face, one way to see the bible, we say the right answers and do the right things kind of feel. I recognize intellectually that this is fine and that God uses that to bless lots of people. But I also feel out of my element a little bit.
It reminded me of your post about christians having the "right" answer and etc. So, even though I thought I was doing really well at this acceptance thing, I found myself being a bit smug at biblestudy. I continued to ask myself -- how can I authentically participate while at the same time not hosting judgement?
I thought of what God's been doing and how I need to let love melt my heart a bit. Anyways, thought I should let you know -- finding places where I still need work :)
I went to biblestudy today and found myself a minority in that -- most people there had the theology that I think bothers you. This in your face, one way to see the bible, we say the right answers and do the right things kind of feel. I recognize intellectually that this is fine and that God uses that to bless lots of people. But I also feel out of my element a little bit.
It reminded me of your post about christians having the "right" answer and etc. So, even though I thought I was doing really well at this acceptance thing, I found myself being a bit smug at biblestudy. I continued to ask myself -- how can I authentically participate while at the same time not hosting judgement?
I thought of what God's been doing and how I need to let love melt my heart a bit. Anyways, thought I should let you know -- finding places where I still need work :)
Friday, February 25, 2011
Radical Love
So our biblestudy last week was about Matthew 5-6 -- Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. We talked about what does it mean to turn the other cheek. What would Jesus ask us to do today?
We thought, maybe -- write a letter of recommendation for someone who gets you fired.
We also talked about times when the loving action is to stand up and not allow someone to continue to take advantage of you.
What does it mean to be radically loving? How can we love radically in our lives?
And...
who are our enemies? how do we define them?
Maybe I will try to post updates from our weekly biblestudy. Conversation has been pretty good.
We thought, maybe -- write a letter of recommendation for someone who gets you fired.
We also talked about times when the loving action is to stand up and not allow someone to continue to take advantage of you.
What does it mean to be radically loving? How can we love radically in our lives?
And...
who are our enemies? how do we define them?
Maybe I will try to post updates from our weekly biblestudy. Conversation has been pretty good.
Friday, February 18, 2011
On Acceptance
Update on life.
Outcomes acheived.
I thought it would take a long time. But when he wants to God works fast. My life is filled with love, community, purpose and call and it only grows day by day.
There is so much that has happened, I don't know where to begin or how to explain it -- except to say that a turn of heart, a true turn of heart on my behalf has led to an outpouring of God, love, life and purpose in my life.
To highlight the changes I can say:
So, I am looking inside and trying to find deeper pockets of resistance -- pride, snobishness, self-absorbtion. I am working on honesty. Finding honesty in myself and trying to connect with authenticity to the people God has put in my life.
More to say for sure, but that's just a short overview of where I've been.
PS Toni - I met with my financial planner today. I thought of you. How's the saving going?
Outcomes acheived.
I thought it would take a long time. But when he wants to God works fast. My life is filled with love, community, purpose and call and it only grows day by day.
There is so much that has happened, I don't know where to begin or how to explain it -- except to say that a turn of heart, a true turn of heart on my behalf has led to an outpouring of God, love, life and purpose in my life.
To highlight the changes I can say:
- A woman, Amber, with a hard life and a really rough 2010 moved into our house in January. As she was moving in, some of the most important people in her life passed away. Mom happened to be here. As a family we held her up and helped her through the roughness of it all. As that has passed, her life continues to improve day by day. She is growing more confident in herself and growing in every direction like a flower.
- Scott moved in. He has thrived here. He helps a ton around the house and takes care of Eddie. He has had lots of chances to "be the man." He is on his game and really exploring his career. He has a good chance of landing a good job and has been really engaged in church and biblestudy.
- My business partner, Chris, has had a hard couple of years. Her life also seems to be filling with joy. Just recently, her daughter is got engaged. She and I are sharing life in deep ways -- talking about everything like best friends from highschool. We have grown our business - have paying customers and have hired our first employee. Mom and Dad are signed up as clients as ours and my partner is really helping them take the business to a new level.
- I was signed up at church to help with these Haitian dancers who are coming to visit at Easter. More and more people at church are starting to know me and talking to me.
- We started our biblestudy and its really really good. It is deep and meaningful and we are very honest and open about faith and growing together. We pray together at the end of the night. It seems that more people will start coming soon to that and I can feel a small church beginning.
- The homeless woman, Sonja, that I was helping has gotten on her feet - stopped drinking and got an apartment. I have hired her to clean my floors once a week. She is really happy and cracks jokes with Scott and Amber.
- Over all, it feels that my family has grown. From me and Ulrich and Eddie to now include Scott and Amber and Chris and Sonja. And it is still growing... new employee, people from church, people coming to biblestudy.
So, I am looking inside and trying to find deeper pockets of resistance -- pride, snobishness, self-absorbtion. I am working on honesty. Finding honesty in myself and trying to connect with authenticity to the people God has put in my life.
More to say for sure, but that's just a short overview of where I've been.
PS Toni - I met with my financial planner today. I thought of you. How's the saving going?
Monday, January 31, 2011
CFF Objection #5: It's Offensive to Claim Jesus is the Only Way to God
The exclusivity clause has always been one of my biggest issues with Christianity - so this chapter really hit home for me and tackled an important issue with my faith. It made me realize that it wasn't the exclusivity clause by itself that has bothered me for so long - really at the core of it was more-so the arrogance o f the people talking about it that turned me off so much. Here's what the chapter covered and my responses to it:
Q1: "Why do Christians think they're justified in asserting that they're right and everybody else in the world is wrong?"
A1: "First, it's important to understand that Christianity is not the only religion that claims exclusivity..All truth is, by definition, exclusive. If truth does not exclude, then no assertion of a truth claim is being made."
R1 : Well that certainly takes the wind out of the sails... But, being a highly rationale and logical person, it was a very important argument for me to absorb. It is true that nearly all of the major religions of the world claim exclusivity/truth....but when they have mutually exclusive tenants it's impossible for them to all be true at the same time. I believe, though, that this doesn't necessarily negate the argument that many of the major religions have aspects of truth. The ultimate argument made in CFF though is that Christianity is the only religion with the WHOLE truth. Christianity is the "seeing man" in the parable of the three blind men and the elephant.
"While there may be aspects of truth elsewhere, the sum total truth is in Christ."
"It's one thing for Christians to believe that. It's another thing to communicate it without sounding smug or superior, but Christians often come off that way."
"If truth is not undergirded by love, it makes the possessor of that truth obnoxious and the truth repulsive...One cannot communicate the love of Christ in non-loving terms." "Mahatma Gandhi said, 'I like their Christ, I don't like their Christians.' Friedrich Nietzshe said, 'I will believe in the Redeemer when the Christian looks a little more redeemed.' Their points need to be taken."
The response to that statement was one that I wish more Christians would take to heart - I think if they did it would open the door to a lot of people...I know I would've been more receptive much longer ago if they did.
Well, this entry is already getting pretty lengthy so I'll leave it here for now and let you chew on it..
TO BE CONTINUED...
Q1: "Why do Christians think they're justified in asserting that they're right and everybody else in the world is wrong?"
A1: "First, it's important to understand that Christianity is not the only religion that claims exclusivity..All truth is, by definition, exclusive. If truth does not exclude, then no assertion of a truth claim is being made."
R1 : Well that certainly takes the wind out of the sails... But, being a highly rationale and logical person, it was a very important argument for me to absorb. It is true that nearly all of the major religions of the world claim exclusivity/truth....but when they have mutually exclusive tenants it's impossible for them to all be true at the same time. I believe, though, that this doesn't necessarily negate the argument that many of the major religions have aspects of truth. The ultimate argument made in CFF though is that Christianity is the only religion with the WHOLE truth. Christianity is the "seeing man" in the parable of the three blind men and the elephant.
"While there may be aspects of truth elsewhere, the sum total truth is in Christ."
"It's one thing for Christians to believe that. It's another thing to communicate it without sounding smug or superior, but Christians often come off that way."
"If truth is not undergirded by love, it makes the possessor of that truth obnoxious and the truth repulsive...One cannot communicate the love of Christ in non-loving terms." "Mahatma Gandhi said, 'I like their Christ, I don't like their Christians.' Friedrich Nietzshe said, 'I will believe in the Redeemer when the Christian looks a little more redeemed.' Their points need to be taken."
The response to that statement was one that I wish more Christians would take to heart - I think if they did it would open the door to a lot of people...I know I would've been more receptive much longer ago if they did.
Well, this entry is already getting pretty lengthy so I'll leave it here for now and let you chew on it..
TO BE CONTINUED...
Thursday, January 20, 2011
Compassion
So I've gotten into a lot of deep conversations this week for some reason and am blown apart by how broken so many people's lives are. One friend is having a hard time keeping her marraige together, another her finances are devasted by a recent divorce, another is a former drug addict, another grew up without parents around and just fended for herself...
It feels that there is a sea of brokenness. That people aren't friendly because they haven't experienced geniune love. I'm starting to wonder if that is my call in this place. To be a voice of deep and radical love -- so people can see what it actually looks like.
I met a woman this week, who, in spite of having every possible thing pitted against her continues to reach out and look for a good life. She would be in the example book of "how people don't have to suck, even if they had a rough childhood." Though, because she's never seen it, she doesn't know what the life she is looking for looks like. She inspires me to want to show her what life can be....
I think I'm finding my heart softening as I begin to walk this road of faith and acceptance....
It feels that there is a sea of brokenness. That people aren't friendly because they haven't experienced geniune love. I'm starting to wonder if that is my call in this place. To be a voice of deep and radical love -- so people can see what it actually looks like.
I met a woman this week, who, in spite of having every possible thing pitted against her continues to reach out and look for a good life. She would be in the example book of "how people don't have to suck, even if they had a rough childhood." Though, because she's never seen it, she doesn't know what the life she is looking for looks like. She inspires me to want to show her what life can be....
I think I'm finding my heart softening as I begin to walk this road of faith and acceptance....
Tuesday, January 11, 2011
An arrogant prick...
So, I was chatting with mom last night and she commented that like all other smart people I can come off as an arrogant prick. I know its true and at the heart of this goal of mine is to not come off that way. But I have some grave challenges:
1. I'm an extrovert. If I think it or feel it, there's a good chance I'll say it.
2. Its really hard to "not be right" sometimes -- especially when objectively I am right
I talked to Ulrich about being genuinely open to other people's ideas and allowing things to go in ways that are "suboptimal." I think a lot of the time I can do this, but there are sometimes when it grates against my soul and it drives me nuts. In these cases, if I have the grace to actually let go and let someone else do it the "wrong" way, then I nearly always need to vent later or my emotions will fester.
Venting later means that I talk poorly of someone (or sarcastically) also against the heart of the goal.
Acceptance, the deep letting go, is hard. In realms of faith, I have an easier time...or at least, I've learned that I can let go and trust God and not have to control things. But other people -- I think its harder because people, unlike God, are not perfect and they suck sometimes.
It seems that there are moments when you can't stand by and you need to stand up and be an arrogant prick -- or be right -- but then, blessed are the meek.
1. I'm an extrovert. If I think it or feel it, there's a good chance I'll say it.
2. Its really hard to "not be right" sometimes -- especially when objectively I am right
I talked to Ulrich about being genuinely open to other people's ideas and allowing things to go in ways that are "suboptimal." I think a lot of the time I can do this, but there are sometimes when it grates against my soul and it drives me nuts. In these cases, if I have the grace to actually let go and let someone else do it the "wrong" way, then I nearly always need to vent later or my emotions will fester.
Venting later means that I talk poorly of someone (or sarcastically) also against the heart of the goal.
Acceptance, the deep letting go, is hard. In realms of faith, I have an easier time...or at least, I've learned that I can let go and trust God and not have to control things. But other people -- I think its harder because people, unlike God, are not perfect and they suck sometimes.
It seems that there are moments when you can't stand by and you need to stand up and be an arrogant prick -- or be right -- but then, blessed are the meek.
Monday, January 10, 2011
CFF - Objection #1 - Since Evil and Suffering Exist, a Loving God Cannot
This used to be one of my biggest obstacles with Christianity - it's still on the list, but I think I've come to terms with it to a certain extent.
How can we claim to have a loving, caring, father-figure God when so many horrible things happen around the world? I've come to terms with this issue on the small-scale, but large-scale suffering still gives me a hard time.
Small-scale: my brother's CP, and lack of progression despite enthusiastic praying as a child, caused me to doubt God. But there are two things that have helped me cope with this issue. First, an answer provided by CFF, is that God allows suffering in our lives as an invitation to seek him out. If we are honest with ourselves we will admit that we are more likely to seek out God in times of tribulation than we are in times of prosperity. So even though we may be suffering - the relationship with God that we seek for as a result of it far outweighs the initial price. I can wrap my head around that and accept it. Throughout my own life I also came to terms with the fact that God puts things in our life as tests - and ultimately, what doesn't kill us makes us stronger. We suffer because it makes us stronger in our faith, but also because it shapes us into who we are and makes us stronger individuals. If everything was easy, we wouldn't learn to be self-sufficient. So, small-scale; I get it.
Large-scale: whole other story for me. It's just so hard for me to understand how a loving God could allow natural disasters to kill thousands (Haiti), or for something like a drought to kill innocent children by starvation - all he'd have to do is send a little rain! How about the Holocaust - or genocide in Rwanda? One explanation provided by CFF is that God did not create evil - the fall of Adam and Eve is the cause of it all. So, it's all a result of our own free will - which addresses large-scale suffering like wars I suppose. But still; a father would do all that he could to keep his children from suffering - so when it comes to natural disasters it's hard for me to wrap my head around that explanation. Another approach that CFF takes is the analogy of the bear, the trap and the hunter...basically saying that we only see a fraction of the big picture and that we need to trust that it's all a part of God's plan. But really, what could be the good in large-scale suffering? I guess that speaks to needing to take a big leap of faith...
Ultimately, CFF brings its readers to the conclusion that it is impossible to have free will and to be completely free of evil/suffering. I can understand that - but there is large-scale suffering in the world that is not the result of human choice...so how can that explained?
How can we claim to have a loving, caring, father-figure God when so many horrible things happen around the world? I've come to terms with this issue on the small-scale, but large-scale suffering still gives me a hard time.
Small-scale: my brother's CP, and lack of progression despite enthusiastic praying as a child, caused me to doubt God. But there are two things that have helped me cope with this issue. First, an answer provided by CFF, is that God allows suffering in our lives as an invitation to seek him out. If we are honest with ourselves we will admit that we are more likely to seek out God in times of tribulation than we are in times of prosperity. So even though we may be suffering - the relationship with God that we seek for as a result of it far outweighs the initial price. I can wrap my head around that and accept it. Throughout my own life I also came to terms with the fact that God puts things in our life as tests - and ultimately, what doesn't kill us makes us stronger. We suffer because it makes us stronger in our faith, but also because it shapes us into who we are and makes us stronger individuals. If everything was easy, we wouldn't learn to be self-sufficient. So, small-scale; I get it.
Large-scale: whole other story for me. It's just so hard for me to understand how a loving God could allow natural disasters to kill thousands (Haiti), or for something like a drought to kill innocent children by starvation - all he'd have to do is send a little rain! How about the Holocaust - or genocide in Rwanda? One explanation provided by CFF is that God did not create evil - the fall of Adam and Eve is the cause of it all. So, it's all a result of our own free will - which addresses large-scale suffering like wars I suppose. But still; a father would do all that he could to keep his children from suffering - so when it comes to natural disasters it's hard for me to wrap my head around that explanation. Another approach that CFF takes is the analogy of the bear, the trap and the hunter...basically saying that we only see a fraction of the big picture and that we need to trust that it's all a part of God's plan. But really, what could be the good in large-scale suffering? I guess that speaks to needing to take a big leap of faith...
Ultimately, CFF brings its readers to the conclusion that it is impossible to have free will and to be completely free of evil/suffering. I can understand that - but there is large-scale suffering in the world that is not the result of human choice...so how can that explained?
Tuesday, January 4, 2011
Stumbled upon this...
It doesn't really explain what I believe ... but maybe the fact that I find it interesting/intriguing somewhat points to some of my struggles. Of course, while I find it intersting, Adam scoffed at it ~ maybe I can have a little more open conversation about it here. I guess what I find the most interesting is the description of the soul. I think the meaning of life being maturation has some level of applicability to Christianity... Just thought I'd throw it on here since it ties in with the theme.
http://www.galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html
http://www.galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html
Monday, January 3, 2011
Stops Along the Way...and Where I Am Now
In order for you to understand where I'm coming from, it would probably help if you knew where I've been. I know Adam told me way back when that he talked to you about my not previously being a Christian and my conversion...but I'm not really sure how much you really know. And, honestly, I'm not sure I've ever really sat down and thought it all through. Feel free to skim the following anecdote of my spiritual life...I'm sure it's about to turn into a rather lengthy post as my introspections tend to do...The last paragraph or so is likely to be the most important.
Both of my parents were brought up in Christian families - but in both my grandfathers, as far as I can remember/know of, did not attend church. Grandmother (mom's mom) attends a Methodist church and MawMaw (dad's mom) attended a Pentecostal church. I guess my dad was pretty involved in the church (played in the band and such) way back in the day; but I've never been to church with him as far as I can remember. I guess this is all important because even though my family has Christian backgrounds, I have never once been to church with my parents. All of my church-going experiences as a child were random goings with my grandmothers' when I stayed over on a weekend.
I'm one of those people that doesn't remember a lot about their childhood - but I do remember praying quite emphatically for God to help Lee walk. I think that maybe the lack of miraculous intervention there is something that eventually started my disenchantment with God and Christianity.
In the 4th or 5th grade was the first time I remember wishing my parents would get a divorce. I don't know how much Adam ha s told you about my home life; but I would definitely describe my dad as emotionally abusive. He has never become physically abusive with my mom or us kids; but honestly there have been times that I've wished he had because then something could be done about it...whoever came up with the "sticks and stones" rhyme certainly never lived in a house like mine. I'm not sure if my house has always been like this; but, like I said before, I don't remember a lot from my childhood. Looking back at it all now I can understand that the stress of having a child with a disability is enormously stressful - perhaps it was the trigger for my dad's anger. But, there's no excuse for the things he has said and the way he has treated his family. My inability to understand how God could allow that sort of situation to occur further complicated my ability to believe in him. It also seriously affected my ability to understand the Christian view of God as a loving father.
Then there's the fact that I've always been kind of an old soul looking for answers. In middle school, of my own accord, I did quite a bit of research on religions around the world. I think that was in 7th or 8th grade...I guess I knew I was missing out on something, or I at least wanted to know what all the fuss was about.
8th grade is when something finally made sense to me, and when I found a group of people who had questions and beliefs similar to mine. I found my first real spiritual connection with Wicca. The power and beauty of nature was something undeniable and tangible. There was no obscure ultimate God to try to come to terms with - and it provided an affirmation of sanctity of female as well as male. (I still have issues with how male-dominant most religions are - but the book Captivating helped me see the female side of Christianity). By not having a "loving father-god" with an "ultimate plan" I didn't have the same wanting for an explanation for my life's situations; some things just happen - they test us and make us stronger and that's it. Wicca also gave me a sense of control over my own life; and I had a small group of friends that further researched and practiced it with me. It was the first time I felt like I belonged spiritually. This was also the time in my life where my Aunt Angela re-entered the family; she introduced me to astrology and tarot. It was nice to also have a family member that saw things differently.
This all lasted - off and on I guess, I certainly wasn't any sort of a devout practitioner - for a few years. Pagan beliefs coupled with astrology gave me just enough of a sense of spiritual direction that I didn't start searching for more again until Sophomore/Junior year. Again I started researching religions on my own trying to figure out what was missing. I became more and more aware of the fact that I could relate with bits and pieces of many religions - Christianity, Paganism and Buddhism especially; but I was unable to accept any of them in their entirety. I lacked the ability to have faith - I wanted something to give an explanation for everything, and that just wasn't happening.
Then came Adam and the late night debates on religion and politics. Of course over the years bits and pieces of us rubbed off on each other. The biggest breakthrough I had at this point was being able to separate the church as a political entity from the actual teachings of the Bible. I was able to realize that so many things that didn't make sense to me, and still don't, are constructs of the church and not necessarily from the teachings of Jesus. This went a long way in my being able to accept Christianity as a religion and a way of life.
The final push was when Maw Maw passed away. She died with her Bible in her arms. It made me think that if she held onto her faith so desperately til the bitter end; there had to be something worthwhile about it. So, I opened up - and took a leap of faith. But I feel now that it was half-hearted and not exactly for the right reasons.
I accepted Christianity for Maw Maw and Adam more than I did for myself...and that lack of true commitment is what I think I'm fighting with today. It also makes me feel like I've lost a part of me - the intellectual religious debater. I still want to mix and match parts of other beliefs with Christianity to make it more whole for me; but I don't think Adam would be very accepting of that - like it would make me a faker/not a true believer. But I still question that.
I question the exclusivity clause of Christianity. I question whether or not Christians today really have the full picture of what God/Jesus intended the focus of the religion to be. I cannot accept the Bible as the infallible word of God because I know that it has been written and re-written by men throughout history with a multitude of different motivations - not all of them being holy or pure. Do I have to accept these things in order to be a Christian? I don't know...I'd like to say no, but I feel pressure to say yes.
Like I said...lengthy lol.
Both of my parents were brought up in Christian families - but in both my grandfathers, as far as I can remember/know of, did not attend church. Grandmother (mom's mom) attends a Methodist church and MawMaw (dad's mom) attended a Pentecostal church. I guess my dad was pretty involved in the church (played in the band and such) way back in the day; but I've never been to church with him as far as I can remember. I guess this is all important because even though my family has Christian backgrounds, I have never once been to church with my parents. All of my church-going experiences as a child were random goings with my grandmothers' when I stayed over on a weekend.
I'm one of those people that doesn't remember a lot about their childhood - but I do remember praying quite emphatically for God to help Lee walk. I think that maybe the lack of miraculous intervention there is something that eventually started my disenchantment with God and Christianity.
In the 4th or 5th grade was the first time I remember wishing my parents would get a divorce. I don't know how much Adam ha s told you about my home life; but I would definitely describe my dad as emotionally abusive. He has never become physically abusive with my mom or us kids; but honestly there have been times that I've wished he had because then something could be done about it...whoever came up with the "sticks and stones" rhyme certainly never lived in a house like mine. I'm not sure if my house has always been like this; but, like I said before, I don't remember a lot from my childhood. Looking back at it all now I can understand that the stress of having a child with a disability is enormously stressful - perhaps it was the trigger for my dad's anger. But, there's no excuse for the things he has said and the way he has treated his family. My inability to understand how God could allow that sort of situation to occur further complicated my ability to believe in him. It also seriously affected my ability to understand the Christian view of God as a loving father.
Then there's the fact that I've always been kind of an old soul looking for answers. In middle school, of my own accord, I did quite a bit of research on religions around the world. I think that was in 7th or 8th grade...I guess I knew I was missing out on something, or I at least wanted to know what all the fuss was about.
8th grade is when something finally made sense to me, and when I found a group of people who had questions and beliefs similar to mine. I found my first real spiritual connection with Wicca. The power and beauty of nature was something undeniable and tangible. There was no obscure ultimate God to try to come to terms with - and it provided an affirmation of sanctity of female as well as male. (I still have issues with how male-dominant most religions are - but the book Captivating helped me see the female side of Christianity). By not having a "loving father-god" with an "ultimate plan" I didn't have the same wanting for an explanation for my life's situations; some things just happen - they test us and make us stronger and that's it. Wicca also gave me a sense of control over my own life; and I had a small group of friends that further researched and practiced it with me. It was the first time I felt like I belonged spiritually. This was also the time in my life where my Aunt Angela re-entered the family; she introduced me to astrology and tarot. It was nice to also have a family member that saw things differently.
This all lasted - off and on I guess, I certainly wasn't any sort of a devout practitioner - for a few years. Pagan beliefs coupled with astrology gave me just enough of a sense of spiritual direction that I didn't start searching for more again until Sophomore/Junior year. Again I started researching religions on my own trying to figure out what was missing. I became more and more aware of the fact that I could relate with bits and pieces of many religions - Christianity, Paganism and Buddhism especially; but I was unable to accept any of them in their entirety. I lacked the ability to have faith - I wanted something to give an explanation for everything, and that just wasn't happening.
Then came Adam and the late night debates on religion and politics. Of course over the years bits and pieces of us rubbed off on each other. The biggest breakthrough I had at this point was being able to separate the church as a political entity from the actual teachings of the Bible. I was able to realize that so many things that didn't make sense to me, and still don't, are constructs of the church and not necessarily from the teachings of Jesus. This went a long way in my being able to accept Christianity as a religion and a way of life.
The final push was when Maw Maw passed away. She died with her Bible in her arms. It made me think that if she held onto her faith so desperately til the bitter end; there had to be something worthwhile about it. So, I opened up - and took a leap of faith. But I feel now that it was half-hearted and not exactly for the right reasons.
I accepted Christianity for Maw Maw and Adam more than I did for myself...and that lack of true commitment is what I think I'm fighting with today. It also makes me feel like I've lost a part of me - the intellectual religious debater. I still want to mix and match parts of other beliefs with Christianity to make it more whole for me; but I don't think Adam would be very accepting of that - like it would make me a faker/not a true believer. But I still question that.
I question the exclusivity clause of Christianity. I question whether or not Christians today really have the full picture of what God/Jesus intended the focus of the religion to be. I cannot accept the Bible as the infallible word of God because I know that it has been written and re-written by men throughout history with a multitude of different motivations - not all of them being holy or pure. Do I have to accept these things in order to be a Christian? I don't know...I'd like to say no, but I feel pressure to say yes.
Like I said...lengthy lol.
Your Goal
Now that we have a good start on how to tackle my goal; I think it's time for you to tell me how you want me to help you with yours :) Do you want to just come to me with specific instances that occur - or is there a larger more generalized discussion you want to have about acceptance/non-judgment...? I got a feel for what you're going through when you described your goal - but maybe some more specific examples of things that have happened that you don't want to happen again would help me understand.
It seems like the ultimate goal is to get connected with your new community (naturally, the issue with acceptance/non-judgment is currently hindering that). I wish I could say I knew more about what kind of progress you've already made in that area...but sadly I know that we don't talk as much as I wish we did. What kind of steps have you already taken towards connecting with your community? Have you found a new home church/small group?
I'm glad you're on board with blogging - it's so much easier/faster for me to get stuff out in writing than it is on the phone (not to mention us finding common down-time would probably be a nightmare).
It seems like the ultimate goal is to get connected with your new community (naturally, the issue with acceptance/non-judgment is currently hindering that). I wish I could say I knew more about what kind of progress you've already made in that area...but sadly I know that we don't talk as much as I wish we did. What kind of steps have you already taken towards connecting with your community? Have you found a new home church/small group?
I'm glad you're on board with blogging - it's so much easier/faster for me to get stuff out in writing than it is on the phone (not to mention us finding common down-time would probably be a nightmare).
Saturday, January 1, 2011
Getting Started...
Hey sis :)
So I was thinking that this might be a good way for us to keep in touch on our goals - I know we're both really busy and our schedules probably won't always line up; so this would give us a way to keep in touch on our own time :)
I think working together through the Bible will definitely help - I'm also thinking that I might re-read Strobel's Case for Faith and bounce ideas about that off of you.
Let me know your thoughts when you're up to it!
So I was thinking that this might be a good way for us to keep in touch on our goals - I know we're both really busy and our schedules probably won't always line up; so this would give us a way to keep in touch on our own time :)
I think working together through the Bible will definitely help - I'm also thinking that I might re-read Strobel's Case for Faith and bounce ideas about that off of you.
Let me know your thoughts when you're up to it!
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